Effects

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Effects

Postby djhotmix2012 on 16 Mar 2015, 15:07

Hi there, about a year ago, i dropped using Traktor pro and replaced it with Mixvibes. As it was easer to navigate around and less system resources then Traktor used, and doesn't crash. Also it does a MUCH better job with the BPM and beat grids. Never the less what i have notice is the effects seem to be lacking a bit. I remember using mixvibes back in 2001 i cant remember if it was version 3, it was along time ago. But the effects were allot better sounding then they are now in Cross. What happened?. Or is this a issue still beening worked out. The flanger and phaser i don't use because it seem to be to deep and sweeps way to much of the sound. (if that makes sense). Also been able to use VST plug-ins would be awesome, like the ones i got from blue cat.

This is the only issues i have with the program, hands down ill still recommended it to all my friends. Because you wont find a simpler, more reliable djing software out there.

:)
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Re: Effects

Postby RoJeC on 16 Mar 2015, 17:20

Thanks for your feedback.

Working on the FX's is high on the ToDo list as the 64bit allows for more options.
VST-plugins isn't as simple as it sounds: little CPU and memory usage, fast, reliable are just simple requirements that make like 50% of available VST-plugins not 'fit' in Cross. This would mean that 'open' VST connectivity can and will result in many unhappy users as their plugins will crash, create dropouts etc... meanwhile blaming Cross.

I usually setup a seperate laptop which run the VST-plugins so the load is independent of Cross needs. And learned the hard way which plugins not to use.

Usually these effects only apply to master out.
Ronald

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downloads + more forums = Register license(ucp.php?i=169)
Apple store new user? first read viewtopic.php?f=259&t=34199
Manual? In Cross open menu, select Help (available 24/7).
Audio dropouts? Increase audio 'buffer size' value.
FAQ iOS / Android / PC / MAC http://www.mixvibes.com/help/
Soundcard not available/working? Try the 32bit version of Cross (is also installed).
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Re: Effects

Postby djhotmix2012 on 06 Apr 2015, 13:29

nice to hear the effects will see a make over :) as I indeed love mixvibes more then traktor due to the fact mixvibes isn't a complete resource hog like traktor, and I completely under stand you thoughts on the vst's, iv had some crash my system in the passed. Cant wait till the effects update comes out. :)
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Re: Effects

Postby sudodj on 04 May 2015, 19:01

Having real beat effects that are actually synced to the beats, and adjustable based on beat fractions, is a necessary addition. Things like delay and echo are unusable if you can't set the beats properly.
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Re: Effects

Postby RoJeC on 04 May 2015, 20:42

sudodj wrote:Things like delay and echo are unusable if you can't set the beats properly.

Funny idea. Never had the feeling I missed this. As a matter of fact don't think this would have strange impact on increase and decrease of both amount and depth. Would mean the effects will more or less jump instead of being smooth.

Unless I misunderstand ...
Ronald

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downloads + more forums = Register license(ucp.php?i=169)
Apple store new user? first read viewtopic.php?f=259&t=34199
Manual? In Cross open menu, select Help (available 24/7).
Audio dropouts? Increase audio 'buffer size' value.
FAQ iOS / Android / PC / MAC http://www.mixvibes.com/help/
Soundcard not available/working? Try the 32bit version of Cross (is also installed).
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Re: Effects

Postby sudodj on 05 May 2015, 05:11

RoJeC wrote:Unless I misunderstand ...


I think I must not be explaining it properly. In Serato (for example), when you turn on Delay you can set both the depth and the beat multiplier, because the effect is synced to the BPM. It's the same on any decent mixer. In Cross there's no information about what the beat multiplier is. And for the delay, echo, and reverb that makes it hard or impossible to use.
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Re: Effects

Postby RoJeC on 05 May 2015, 07:29

It's all in the details.. Having it as an option is better to understand..
Gues I'll have to give it a try when having some decent equipment. Meanwhile using experience...
Ronald

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downloads + more forums = Register license(ucp.php?i=169)
Apple store new user? first read viewtopic.php?f=259&t=34199
Manual? In Cross open menu, select Help (available 24/7).
Audio dropouts? Increase audio 'buffer size' value.
FAQ iOS / Android / PC / MAC http://www.mixvibes.com/help/
Soundcard not available/working? Try the 32bit version of Cross (is also installed).
RoJeC
 
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Re: Effects

Postby Will ZEgal on 04 Jul 2016, 00:10

RoJeC wrote:Working on the FX's is high on the ToDo list as the 64bit allows for more options.
VST-plugins isn't as simple as it sounds: little CPU and memory usage, fast, reliable are just simple requirements that make like 50% of available VST-plugins not 'fit' in Cross. This would mean that 'open' VST connectivity can and will result in many unhappy users as their plugins will crash, create dropouts etc... meanwhile blaming Cross.

Sorry to ask, RoJeC, but as a moderator, are you a member of MixVibes team or a hard user of the forum that made you be promoted as a moderator ?

In other way : are your answer an official position of MixVibes or you own opinion ?

So, shall I definitely consider MixVibes doesn't wish to add VST support ?

I'm sorry, but the reasons you give against VST support are bullshit. Any VST user know that all VST are not well coded and that some crash. All VST users know that some VST work well with some hosts on some computers and doesn't in other hosts or computers. All VST users know that some VST requires intense CPU or memory usage and that they must be careful when they use them.

I can understand that many DJs may not be used to VST host software. But some DJ software already support VST. I would be disappointed to have to drop down Cross DJ that suits me for almost everything... Except it's poor effects. Not only a matter of quality and poor number, but the huge lack of control. A time based effect without different control for time and feedback ? A distortion without gain / tone ? A slicer without patterns ? and so on... Sorry to say that, but effects section in Cross DJ is a like a boil on Shakira's butt.

Adding VST support would allow us to use any effect we like. The question of performance, crashs, lags and so on is user's matter.
Of course, Cross would have to include a CPU meter. And of course, users would have been warned about VST plugins hazard and suggested they make intensive testing of installed plug-ins before using them in front of an audience.

In the enormous amount of existing VSTs and with the growing of CPU power and computers memory, I sincerely doubt it won't be possible to find a large bunch of plugins that would work flawlessly with our favourite mixing software.
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Re: Effects

Postby RoJeC on 04 Jul 2016, 22:43

All moderators are users only.

FX's have been acknowledged as a weak part by the devteam and there's a fair chance the next version has better ones.

Seems to me you're merely confirming the behaviour of vst-plugins.

Guess you're overestimating the number of users with broad experience in using these.

You're conclusion that it is a problem for the user if it crashes doesn't really match with the way users report issues which, after analysis, appear to be caused by e.g. Corrupt track files.

In all.. The devteam will decide which FX and with which controls will be in a/the next version.
Ronald

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downloads + more forums = Register license(ucp.php?i=169)
Apple store new user? first read viewtopic.php?f=259&t=34199
Manual? In Cross open menu, select Help (available 24/7).
Audio dropouts? Increase audio 'buffer size' value.
FAQ iOS / Android / PC / MAC http://www.mixvibes.com/help/
Soundcard not available/working? Try the 32bit version of Cross (is also installed).
RoJeC
 
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Re: Effects

Postby DJ Vintage on 05 Jul 2016, 06:56

C'mon guys, we are DJs, not sound engineers (well, I am ...)

Tweaking FX, depending on the effect, can take up to more than 10 parameters, takes a lot of fiddling around with. All good and well if you are sitting in a studio where you can replay a bit of a track 100s of times to get it just right, but not in the hussle and bussle of a DJ Booth where your first priority is music selection, closely followed by interacting with the crowd in some way. After that comes mixing and trickery. All IMHO, of course.

Frankly, the crowd does not care about FX, with one possible exception, if you use it too much. Personally I think sparingly using FX is the best practice. And we are talking a few times a night.

So, do we really want to get all worked up about having a near endless supply of potentially troublesome plug-ins that we will be using a few times a night or do we want to see new options that we can use all the time and that actually make our job easier or more fun? Just asking.

There is not much discussion, not even within Mixvibes, that the quality and scope of the FX isn't on par (anymore) with the competition. As far as I understand from posts on these forums is that it's high on the priority of the DevTeam and that a new version of Cross will incorporate better FX.

My suggestion would be to pick a couple of really useful FX (pretty much all the ones on a DJM-900 plus a few fun extra - although you can debate if all the DJM-900 FX are useful, but that is another story), bring in some really knowledgeable people to help best practice basic settings and parameters to use for each effect and make it so the DJ can tweak the effect easily without having to take a course on it. This way you keep the stability of not having plug-ins crash on you (and indeed having loads of less-knowledgeable colleagues start complaining about Cross instead of their plug-ins) but only tested and approved FX.
Not to mention all the angry faces when it turns out the 32-bit VST they wanted/bought do not work on a 64-bit version of Cross.

Also, if implementing VST would take a lot of Cross rework and development time, moving the timetable on a new version release even further back, I'd rather have a new version with baked-in FX than VST support. But that is just my personal opinion.

Again, Cross is a DJ-platform, not a DAW. The majority of DJs I have ever met aren't too interested in FX, other than using a bit of delay, echo out, filters, record brake and the odd fun thing here and there. Those they expect to be almost push of the button easy. And they should be. Great sounding, easy, fool-proof and fun is what I think good FX for DJs should be.

Just my usual two cents.
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