Cross Pro 3.0 Rekordbox Sync

[radio42]

I just purchased the Cross Pro 3.0 version mainly because of the proposed Rekordbox Sync!
But I was a bit disappointed by the Rekordbox Sync feature!
This seems actually to be a one-way from Cross to Rekordbox - but not the other way around?!
The current sync is just an import bridge within Rekordbox and as such a simple import of tracks and cue-points only. It seems beatgrids are lost and it is impossible to import the Rekordbox collection into Cross!

a) Is this true or is there any way to sync from Rekordbox to Cross?
As a real DJ most changed are done in Rekordbox (resp. live with the CDJs which is then synced into Rekordbox).
So if you can not re-sync from Rekordbox to Cross it is all useless to my mind...

b) Rekordbox supports 2 beatgrid modes (normal and dynamic), but it looks like Cross only supports one mode? Why? and which?

c) Can the (dynamic) beatgrid of Rekordbox be somehow imported into Cross?

d) It also seems, that with the Rekordbox Sync (from Cross to Rekordbox) the Cross beatgrid is NOT synced at all!
Which means you have to analyse the tracks again in Rekordbox...

If this is all true, then the sync is meaningless, as the beatgrid editing is taking most of the time - and as such the sync is almost useless - or do I oversee something?

Is a real 2-way sync including a full beatgrid sync at anypoint in time possible/planned?

[sylMV]

I just purchased the Cross Pro 3.0 version mainly because of the proposed Rekordbox Sync!
But I was a bit disappointed by the Rekordbox Sync feature!
This seems actually to be a one-way from Cross to Rekordbox - but not the other way around?!
The current sync is just an import bridge within Rekordbox and as such a simple import of tracks and cue-points only. It seems beatgrids are lost and it is impossible to import the Rekordbox collection into Cross!

a) Is this true or is there any way to sync from Rekordbox to Cross?
As a real DJ most changed are done in Rekordbox (resp. live with the CDJs which is then synced into Rekordbox).
So if you can not re-sync from Rekordbox to Cross it is all useless to my mind...

In Collection menu, "Import Third Party database" to import a rekordbox xml into Cross.

b) Rekordbox supports 2 beatgrid modes (normal and dynamic), but it looks like Cross only supports one mode? Why? and which?

Currently rekordbox dynamic mode is not compatible with Cross.

c) Can the (dynamic) beatgrid of Rekordbox be somehow imported into Cross?

See above.

d) It also seems, that with the Rekordbox Sync (from Cross to Rekordbox) the Cross beatgrid is NOT synced at all!
Which means you have to analyse the tracks again in Rekordbox...

If this is all true, then the sync is meaningless, as the beatgrid editing is taking most of the time - and as such the sync is almost useless - or do I oversee something?

Check you use the latest rekordbox version. Exporting beatgrids from Cross to rekordbox works.

[radio42]

Many thanks for your answer, which clarifies all my questions.
However, it is really disappointing, that the sync works this way and that the dynamic beatgrid mode is not supported.

Why do you really need a Sync? The main reason for ALL DJs is, that they want to use only ONE system to maintain, organize and manage their tracks, playlists, meta-data, cue-points, beatgrids etc.
DJs do NOT want to use 2 or more systems in parallel and do all the work again and again and even spend hours just to ensure, that these 2 or 3 systems are up-to-date and in sync ;-)

The main competitor of Cross is Traktor.
For Traktor uses (and I am still one as well, but in parallel I am also using Rekordbox) it was so promising to have a real sync. Why? Four reasons:

1. The playlist management of Rekordbox is better than the one in Traktor.
2. I am enforced to use Rekordbox if I want to use the new features of the new CDJs (e.g. when not DJing with Traktor or Cross in a club, but natively with CDJs and USBs). So I was willing to even switch from Traktor to Cross - just because of the promised sync!
3. Changes made in a club (with a Rekordbox USB device) are instantly being re-synced with the Desktop Rekordbox application! So I want that of course to be re-synced with Cross as well!
4. The dynamic beatgrid is a major advantage of Rekordbox (I am using it a lot), but now I learn, that Cross is incompatible with it! The dynamic beatgrid is one major reason, why Rekordbox should be my master system and not Cross!

So after all my tests, I am not (so) willing anymore (as of today)!
Why? Here are the main reasons:

1) Cross does NOT support the dynamic beatgrid mode Rekordbox supports! As such the 2 systems (Cross and Rekordbox) are as incompatible as Traktor and Rekordbox are.
Meaning, if you are using the dynamic beatgrid in Rekordbox (which is so nice with e.g. older Funk or Soul tracks which have been played by human drummers) you loose it after the sync or you can not use the Snap/Quantize features anymore on the CDJs!
This is actually a real show-stopper...
Sorry, but I really do not understand this, as MixVibes developed both tools (Cross and Rekordbox)!

2) Re-sync from Rekordbox to Cross:
Theoretically you can do as suggested above (export the Rekordbox lib and import it as a 3rd party lib back into Cross.
But sorry, that is not a real option - you are kind of 're-creating' your entire Cross library every time, you are loosing all the beatgrid data from Rekordbox and would have to analyze/beatgrid all the tracks again within Cross...
That is no real two-way sync...and hey, the 'Rekord Buddy' tool for Traktor offers a better two-way sync!

So Cross would have to implement the following in order to be ahead of Traktor:

1. offer a real two-way sync or even better: directly use the Rekordbox library collection!
2. support the dynamic beatgrid mode (be really compatible with Rekordbox)

[sylMV]

1) Cross does NOT support the dynamic beatgrid mode Rekordbox supports! As such the 2 systems (Cross and Rekordbox) are as incompatible as Traktor and Rekordbox are.
Meaning, if you are using the dynamic beatgrid in Rekordbox (which is so nice with e.g. older Funk or Soul tracks which have been played by human drummers) you loose it after the sync or you can not use the Snap/Quantize features anymore on the CDJs!
This is actually a real show-stopper...
Sorry, but I really do not understand this, as MixVibes developed both tools (Cross and Rekordbox)!

rekordbox, and especially the beatgrid analyzer (also embedded in CDJs), belongs to Pioneer. You might have noticed the analysis results aren't the same in both apps. This is your choice to prefer one or the other. But there nothing not understandable in this.

Pioneer dynamic analysis is probably good in some cases, but really bad in many of them (otherwise they wouldn't have let the user chose).

That said, it would be really great we could perfectly handle dynamic beatgrid, of course, and we will. But sorry to say developing rekordbox doesn't mean it's easier for us to handle dynamic grids than for the others; then I can't say when it'll be done.

2) Re-sync from Rekordbox to Cross:
Theoretically you can do as suggested above (export the Rekordbox lib and import it as a 3rd party lib back into Cross.
But sorry, that is not a real option - you are kind of 're-creating' your entire Cross library every time, you are loosing all the beatgrid data from Rekordbox and would have to analyze/beatgrid all the tracks again within Cross...
That is no real two-way sync...and hey, the 'Rekord Buddy' tool for Traktor offers a better two-way sync!

If you import a rekordbox xml in Cross, it reads beatgrids. Be sure you enabled beatgrid information export in rekordbox.

So Cross would have to implement the following in order to be ahead of Traktor:

1. offer a real two-way sync or even better: directly use the Rekordbox library collection!
2. support the dynamic beatgrid mode (be really compatible with Rekordbox)

Cross won't directly use the rekordbox library. Cross needs its own database and who says Pioneer would accept having a 3rd party app use their library...?
Already answered concerning the dynamic grids. But I wouldn't say it's mandatory to be really compatible with rekordbox, as most of the DJs don't use these dynamic grids.

[radio42]

Yes, choosing the beatgrid mode wisely is the correct way.
Default-Mode is 'Normal' by default (which is fine)...meaning it is optimized for 'electronic' music where the beat is most of the time generated by a drum machine and as such has no tempo variations.
But for all tracks played by a human drummer having some (even very slight) variations it might be and it is good.
So I guess we have no dissent here.

But back to the Rekordbox Sync:
A sync (to mind mind) should be a real sync - a one-click synchronization! But wait...this is not the case here!
I assumed sync means when I click sync the tracks are synchronized within Rekordbox... my fault, as this is not the case!

When you click on 'Rekordbox Sync' you (simply) create a rekordbox collection xml file (the bridge file) - which can then be viewed from within Rekordbox.
The rekordbox collection by itself is NOT synced at all at this point!
Further steps are needed...

Within Rekordbox you need to select the respective 'Bridge Playlist' (one by one!) and right-click and select 'Import Playlist...'
Then you are asked, if you want to replace the selected playlist within Rekordbox!
As a result...the sync is nothing else than a manual replacement of playlists within your collection.
Yes, it is a replacement - not a sync!

A sync would also consider merging changes (if for example certain attributes have been changed within Cross, but other have been changed in Rekordbox at the same time between 2 syncs).

Do you own a mobile phone and have ever 'synced' your contact or calendar details with your desktop contacts/calendar (e.g. synced your iPhone with Outlook)?
That is a sync !

Imagine you would get this Cross-Rekordbox sync with your mobile phone?! You would immediately buy another one I guess ;-)

Professional DJs add/modify tracks and playlists almost every day!
As such a flawless, fast and real sync is what they really need...

The other way around (as you described it - Rekordbox to Cross) is even more painful, as here you are forced to export the entire Rekordbox collection (all playlists) and are forced to replace them ALL within Cross.

As a bottom-line: Where is the real SYNC?
Yes, it is a little nicer way of replacing entire playlists - but that's it (to my mind).


And yes, beatgrids are exposed (I was wrong in my first post); as long as we are dealing with normal beatgrids.

However, you already answered all my questions - also the one, that we can not expect a tighter more real synchronization in the future - as you must go the way via the 'stupid' bridge...
...which by the way any other software can go as well...no real unique selling proposition.

Rethink your marketing would be my advise, as people get frustrated when they are teased by arguments which in the end are not fulfilled.

[djphaidon]

Radio42, why not just use Cross connected to the CDJs? You get nearly all the functionality out of the CDJs plus some, and then your library is always up to date, cause it's the one in Cross?

I understand the issues, but it's not easy getting two different things to talk and talk well, especially when one side doesn't want others to talk to (rekordbox). I have Media Monkey running through parallels in Mac OSX because I don't like iTunes, and nothing else will do the job. So yes, I understand your frustration.

[Jayson Joyce]

Radio42...I understand your points..My comment is that I have had the same problems in the past, but your minimizing time the saved in doing the Rekordbox sync from within Cross versus doing it manually and doing it with Rekord Buddy...I have done both and its no problem to do..but I would make the same claim that Rekord Buddy is slower and harder to do than they make it seem in their marketing.

It seems to me that Mixvibes and Pioneer are partners but still competitors...so coming up with sync like you want is going to be impossible... It works on your phone because Google owns both the Android and Gmail and the same with Apple and Microsoft and believe me I have had trouble with Gmail Contact sync on my phone and gmail contact sync on windows phone is unreliable..You can try all you want but competing company software will never sync perfectly....

Anyway the point is the solution is faster than manual and is still faster than Rekord Buddy...plus the other comment replied is valid....Real DJs, which I am, would just use HID with Cross and CDJs and have no problem...If you want the convenience of using a USB stick then use the Cross to Rekordbox solution..If not then the HID Cross solution is much better...
Plus Rekordbox software has been known by "Real DJs" to lack features, have a million bugs, and in general is not as well liked as Traktor, Serato, or Cross...a 30 second Google search for Rekordbox problems will give you a million hits and most are in Pioneer's own forum...you're one of the few people that I have read on forums that would actually prefer to use it...

Your comments are noted and a some are valid, But I don't think that the feedback is really constructive on some points because its not Mixvibes fault...and the do have a really good HID product for use with CDJs

[radio42]

Agreed!

[riquo]

Same frustration here.
I could have written all of the above posts, I bought Cross because I thought it was the perfect companion to Rekordbox.
I own all of them, Traktor, Serato, and even Ableton.

As you guys said, most of the clubs have CDJs installed though, and it's so easy and cool to move around just with a USB stick.

So rekordbox is the MASTER library. Full stop.
Now we need a software client...
But which one?

Yes Rekordbuddy is a nice tool to sync to Traktor, and it finally starts to work, but it's stil a big pain, especially after adding NEW tunes into Rekordbox.
Serato is unsyncable.
Ableton has its own way to warp tracks.
It's all so frustrating!

Yes I bought Cross for the SYNC to rekordbox but it's not a SYNC, and that sucks. Real pity Pioneer plays hard on that, even because they don't really have a client software application, so why should they bother?

Anyway so far I believe the best option is still Rekordbox and Traktor via Rekordbuddy.

Maybe you guys at Mixvibes should really find a way to do something similar to Rekordbuddy and even better...
One click and done.

I will buy the upgrade immediately.

[DJGerard]

It is a year old topic but I have to add to this.
I agree it is a pain. For me I have been trying to find a solution to make and edit playlists from my mobile device. Rekordbox is that solution. However, if I am not using CDJs and am going to use turntables I need to be able to get those rekordbox settings and playlists into Cross, Traktor, or Serato,etc. The problem for me is not which platform I use rather I do not want to be stuck lugging my laptop around when I could have the conveinience of a phone app like rekordbox on my downtime while commuting maybe to make changes.